{"id":152618,"date":"2025-03-23T12:00:02","date_gmt":"2025-03-23T17:00:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/truthforteachers.com\/?post_type=podcasts&#038;p=152618"},"modified":"2025-03-23T19:19:37","modified_gmt":"2025-03-24T00:19:37","slug":"engaging-distracted-students","status":"publish","type":"podcasts","link":"https:\/\/truthforteachers.com\/truth-for-teachers-podcast\/engaging-distracted-students\/","title":{"rendered":"Meaningful and relevant: engaging learners in the age of distraction"},"content":{"rendered":"<h3>We\u2019re tackling one of the biggest challenges educators face today: keeping students engaged in a world full of distractions.<\/h3>\n<p>AJ Juliani joins me to explore how to create meaningful and relevant learning experiences that resonate with today\u2019s learners, even in the age of TikTok, smartphones, and endless notifications.<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s an educator, author, and speaker who serves as an instructor for the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education (PLN). AJ has worked towards innovative learning experiences as the Director of Learning and Innovation for Centennial School District, as Curriculum Coordinator, as Tech Director, English teacher, football coach, and K-12 Instructional Coach.\u00a0 His favorite role is being dad to five kids. You might know AJ from his books Adaptable, Empower, Launch, or The PBL Playbook.<\/p>\n<p><b>Here\u2019s what you\u2019ll learn:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">Why simply removing phones or distractions won\u2019t solve the engagement problem.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">How to balance direct instruction with collaborative, student-centered learning.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">Why meaningful, relevant tasks are more effective than \u201crigorous\u201d assignments for long-term learning.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">The \u201ctraffic light\u201d system for integrating technology and AI into classroom activities.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">How to help students develop focus, self-regulation, and intrinsic motivation.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">Strategies for using choice and ownership to foster deeper learning experiences.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">The surprising truths about rigor, assessment, and knowledge transfer.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">How to create performance tasks that build real-world skills and make learning stick.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">Why human connection and relationships are more vital than ever in education.<\/li>\n<li aria-level=\"1\">Practical advice for building long-term habits of engagement that go beyond quick fixes.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>AJ also shares insights from his latest book and offers actionable strategies for educators who want to make their teaching meaningful and impactful in a rapidly changing world. Continue reading, or listen to our conversation using the podcast player below.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-152766 aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/truthforteachers.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Meaning-and-relevant-tall-1-333x500.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"333\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https:\/\/truthforteachers.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Meaning-and-relevant-tall-1-333x500.jpg 333w, https:\/\/truthforteachers.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Meaning-and-relevant-tall-1-683x1024.jpg 683w, https:\/\/truthforteachers.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Meaning-and-relevant-tall-1-768x1152.jpg 768w, https:\/\/truthforteachers.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Meaning-and-relevant-tall-1.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 333px) 100vw, 333px\" \/><\/p>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>Listen to episode 321 below,<br \/>\n<\/strong><strong>or subscribe in your podcast app<\/strong><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none;\" title=\"Libsyn Player\" src=\"\/\/html5-player.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/35793790\/height\/90\/theme\/custom\/thumbnail\/yes\/direction\/backward\/render-playlist\/no\/custom-color\/672c5b\/\" width=\"500\" height=\"90\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"> <\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"> <\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h5 style=\"text-align: center;\">Sponsored by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/join.40htw.com\/ai\">40 Hour AI<\/a><\/h5>\n<h3>The growing challenge of student attention<\/h3>\n<p><strong>ANGELA: So, the ability to focus one&#8217;s attention has been a growing challenge for students, especially over recent years. Can you talk about what you&#8217;re seeing and hearing in classrooms and the factors that seem to be contributing to these issues?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>AJ: Yeah, this is a perfect storm, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s a perfect storm of a lot of things happening. We had all these one-to-one initiatives, everybody getting devices. Then a pandemic comes. Now everybody&#8217;s really asked to have devices. We put everything online, learning management systems, and not to mention the phones in everybody&#8217;s pockets and everywhere.<\/p>\n<p>But we&#8217;re seeing in a lot of classrooms right now, teachers talking about kids being distracted, apathy, and there&#8217;s an actual famous researcher and consultant by the name of Linda Stone that coined a term, a phrase for what we&#8217;re all feeling, which is continuous partial attention. It\u2019s the easiest way to sum up what&#8217;s happening in our classrooms and really just in our world, which is we&#8217;re not just dividing our attention. We are giving attention to so many things at once.<\/p>\n<p>Because of notifications and just our general need to check in and see what&#8217;s going on, it&#8217;s becoming a really big struggle. I always do activities with folks talking about how hard it is to learn when you multitask. Now think about your mind going 25 different directions, kind of like the tabs that you have open. I&#8217;m looking at my computer right now\u2014I\u2019ve got about 15 tabs open. Or if I swiped up on my phone, I could imagine I&#8217;d have another 15 apps that are open. Think about your brain like that. It just makes it very difficult to pay attention. What people are feeling is very real, and it&#8217;s not just the kids. It\u2019s also the adults who are feeling this because we&#8217;re living in this world too.<\/p>\n<h3>A vision for evolving education<\/h3>\n<p><strong>A lot of people think the situation is hopeless. It seems to be getting worse every year, and phones are taking over our lives more and more. They also tend to feel like there&#8217;s not a lot that teachers can do about it because this is not a school-specific or student-specific thing. But you are imagining something better. What is your vision for how education can evolve to better meet the needs of learners in a world that is full of distractions and continuous partial attention?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There are a lot of different avenues we can go down, and it looks different for different ages. I was turned on to the work of Dr. Mark D. Esposito, and he works at the Berkeley Brain Imaging Center. His research is fascinating. He basically says we have two competing networks happening in our brain. One is the task-positive network, and the other is the default mode network. You can imagine the task-positive network is when we&#8217;re getting things done, making progress, and able to focus. The default mode network is kind of what has happened through evolution and throughout history, where we are scanning for threats and new information.<\/p>\n<p>The issue we&#8217;re having right now is every time we get a notification, it puts us into that default mode network. Unlike people thinking, &#8220;Oh, right brain and left brain,&#8221; these networks cannot operate simultaneously. It\u2019s like a neural seesaw: task-positive goes up, default goes down; default goes up, task-positive goes down. He has five steps that can really help us think about how to design our lessons, classrooms, and spaces.<\/p>\n<p>The first one he talks about is the 25-5 rule. It\u2019s kind of like a Pomodoro timer type of thing. We can only live in that task-positive network for about 20-25 minutes. For younger kids, it\u2019s a much shorter period of time. You have to give yourself time to let that default mode run. In a classroom, that could mean brain breaks or other activities. You have to give the brain time to allow for scanning if you want to get back to that task-positive state. It doesn\u2019t help if we go from one task-positive activity straight to another without reflection or metacognitive time. That time is huge.<\/p>\n<p>Another piece is creating a threat-free zone. This means eliminating distractions, like getting cell phones out of the classroom or snoozing laptops. It\u2019s about actually having focus time. He also talks about scheduling scanning time just as we schedule threat-free time. But I think the most impactful step for teachers is to create focus-use triggers. This could be a playlist kids are used to or a specific location or ritual that signals focus time. Something like that helps kids get into the task-positive network.<\/p>\n<p>As we think about how educators can move forward, we really need to look at the science and acknowledge that powering through lesson after lesson doesn\u2019t work. Giving time to let the default mode process is a big piece of the puzzle.<\/p>\n<h3>Competing with TikTok for students&#8217; attention<\/h3>\n<p><strong>One of the things teachers feel is that they\u2019re having to compete with TikTok and other really engaging platforms. A challenging lesson that requires students to focus and exert sustained attention is never going to have the same appeal as passively consuming something designed for entertainment in 10-second bursts. What are your thoughts on the idea that teachers can&#8217;t compete with TikTok? How can we design lessons that naturally capture students&#8217; attention?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s very tough to compete with TikTok and similar platforms. They\u2019re really good at grabbing attention. But I think sometimes we misunderstand why TikTok is so engaging. It\u2019s not just about entertainment.<\/p>\n<p>A study shared on the Freakonomics podcast asked how much students would have to be paid to give up social media for a month. The results were fascinating. Students said they\u2019d pay to have their friends and family give it up too. This highlights the importance of belonging. It\u2019s not just the tech itself\u2014it\u2019s the connections it facilitates.<\/p>\n<div class=\"flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col relative items-end\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"pt-0\">\n<div class=\"gizmo-bot-avatar flex h-8 w-8 items-center justify-center overflow-hidden rounded-full\">\n<div class=\"relative p-1 rounded-sm flex items-center justify-center bg-token-main-surface-primary text-token-text-primary h-8 w-8\">When thinking about how we can compete for student engagement, I often reference the Selectee Center for Engagement, which has studied this topic extensively. They\u2019ve identified five levels of engagement:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"group\/conversation-turn relative flex w-full min-w-0 flex-col agent-turn\">\n<div class=\"flex-col gap-1 md:gap-3\">\n<div class=\"flex max-w-full flex-col flex-grow\">\n<div class=\"min-h-8 text-message flex w-full flex-col items-end gap-2 whitespace-normal break-words text-start [.text-message+&amp;]:mt-5\" dir=\"auto\" data-message-author-role=\"assistant\" data-message-id=\"e71d2407-402a-4140-8332-c28589995a10\" data-message-model-slug=\"gpt-4o\">\n<div class=\"flex w-full flex-col gap-1 empty:hidden first:pt-[3px]\">\n<div class=\"markdown prose w-full break-words dark:prose-invert light\">\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Rebellion<\/strong> \u2013 Actively resisting or pushing back against expectations.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Retreatism (or apathy)<\/strong> \u2013 Disengagement, where students are physically present but mentally absent.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Ritual compliance<\/strong> \u2013 Doing the bare minimum to meet expectations without genuine interest.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Strategic compliance<\/strong> \u2013 Meeting expectations with a focus on achieving a reward or avoiding a consequence.<\/li>\n<li><strong>True engagement<\/strong> \u2013 The highest level, where students exhibit both high attention and high commitment.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>True engagement happens when students are fully invested\u2014attentive and committed. The key is understanding that if we focus solely on grabbing attention, we\u2019ll never win against platforms like TikTok.<\/p>\n<p>However, if we focus on creating meaningful and relevant learning experiences that foster collaboration, a sense of belonging, and genuine commitment, we can succeed.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<h3>Rethinking cell phones in the classroom<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Technology, especially cell phones, presents significant challenges in the classroom. Since the release of <em>The Anxious Generation<\/em> by Jonathan Haidt, many schools have moved to ban cell phones altogether. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Early on, some viewed phones as a way to engage students, but opinions are shifting. Phones are undeniably a big distraction. For example, even in places where phones are banned, like in France, students still bring them and hide them. Removing distractions doesn\u2019t necessarily solve engagement problems.<\/p>\n<p>The real issue is how we structure learning. Engagement isn\u2019t just about eliminating distractions; it\u2019s about fostering achievement and motivation. Without moments of achievement, it\u2019s hard for students to stay motivated.<\/p>\n<p>A famous story highlights this: a struggling student scored 1480 on the SAT and believed he was smart, transforming his outlook and future success. Later, it turned out the score was a mistake. What changed his life wasn\u2019t the actual score but believing he was capable of achieving. These \u201c1480 moments\u201d are crucial in helping students feel successful and motivated.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How do we get more of those 1480 moments? What do we need to restructure to do that?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The big thing for me is that we\u2019re often just assessing the final product, the final task, instead of the learning process and the energy or output that kids put into it. Think about a kid in elementary school working on a diorama project. He\u2019s putting in a lot of effort, but he doesn\u2019t have two parents at home helping him. Maybe the teacher helped him a little, but he comes to school on the day the project is due, proud of his work. Then he looks around and sees another kid\u2019s project that looks better, or another student\u2019s project that\u2019s clearly been helped along by family members. He starts feeling down about himself.<\/p>\n<p>Imagine being that student and being graded solely on the final product. He\u2019s not being recognized for his guts, resiliency, integrity, or tenacity. I think we need to reframe how we assess, especially to allow for more of those 1480 moments that aren\u2019t tied exclusively to the final product. It\u2019s about recognizing effort, process, and growth in addition to the outcome.<\/p>\n<h3>Grading effort vs. reimagining assessment<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Is that grading on effort, or do you see it differently?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s a lot of talk about this. The San Francisco College Track, for example, created a &#8220;grit rubric,&#8221; which includes:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Guts<\/strong> \u2013 The courage to take risks and persevere through challenges.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Resiliency<\/strong> \u2013 The ability to bounce back from setbacks and keep moving forward.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Integrity<\/strong> \u2013 Staying true to one\u2019s values and demonstrating honesty.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Tenacity<\/strong> \u2013 Demonstrating determination and persistence in achieving goals.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Jen Gonzalez also talks about single-point rubrics, which I love. The focus shifts to assessing specific areas\u2014whether it\u2019s creativity, independence, collaboration, or something else. It\u2019s not about ranking kids against each other based on their final product. Instead, it\u2019s about rewarding the time and energy they invested in the process.<\/p>\n<p>If a student has paid attention, shown commitment, and put in the effort, that\u2019s worth celebrating. Maybe their final product doesn\u2019t compare to others, but they still went through the process and showed growth. We need to keep that momentum going instead of dampening their motivation with a low grade for not meeting every little rubric requirement. In today\u2019s world of distractions, it\u2019s so easy for kids to become disheartened and disengage from &#8220;the game of school.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>One way to approach this is by rethinking how we structure assignments and projects. For example, we could do something Hemingway-style, where students write their essay in front of us, turning it in as a rough draft or a work-in-progress. Or, we could try project-based sprints, where students tackle something typically designed as a six-week project but complete it in two or three class periods, using technology strategically to speed up certain processes.<\/p>\n<p>There are also approaches like guided discussions, where students defend their learning and reasoning, or even hybrid methods that incorporate both technology and traditional approaches. When you think about this in terms of a Venn diagram, you have \u201ctech-compatible\u201d on one side and \u201ctech-resistant\u201d on the other, with a crucial middle ground in between.<\/p>\n<p>That middle ground includes things like project-based learning and performance tasks, where you can pick and choose when to use technology. This balance becomes key\u2014not leaning too far into one extreme or the other but finding a way to make learning meaningful, efficient, and engaging.<\/p>\n<p>You know coming out of the pandemic, it was like, <em>Alright, now we use tech for everything<\/em>. We have our learning management system where we&#8217;re reading everything. It became an overload, right? Even the kids don&#8217;t want it. And I think that&#8217;s part of where we have to reflect as educators and be like, <em>Alright, let&#8217;s take a step back. What&#8217;s our learning goal? Does the technology serve a purpose?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;re just using it as a teenage or student pacifier, just to kind of keep them busy and they can be on their technology. And those are the questions that we have to come up with. But it&#8217;s not like tech is all bad. There are amazing things we can create with it if it&#8217;s part of that purpose, especially if it&#8217;s for real-time collaboration, editing feedback, creating all those types of things. It&#8217;s a fantastic tool When kids have an authentic purpose and authentic audience that they&#8217;re creating and making meaningful work.<\/p>\n<h3>Navigating AI doing the work for students<\/h3>\n<p><strong>I think that&#8217;s a great answer and I&#8217;m glad that you brought up the AI piece because that&#8217;s one of the questions that teachers are talking about a lot in my AI program, the 40-hour AI, we&#8217;re talking about streamlining teacher workloads with AI as so many of the secondary, particularly ELA teachers and others who have kids do a lot of writing are saying, &#8220;<\/strong><strong>I&#8217;m having to completely change everything about the way that I teach. It&#8217;s a total overhaul. Nothing that I used to do works anymore, because the kids are like, &#8216;I can just use ChatGPT. I don&#8217;t need to be able to write. I don&#8217;t need to be able to do this.&#8221; And they&#8217;re experiencing a lot of frustration with that. What would you say to folks who are um trying to manage that situation?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I think first take a step back\u2014don\u2019t freak out, because I freak out a little bit, right? Working with college students and everybody. And I want people to think about how we have changed our practice so many times. Every time there is what I call a hinge of history\u2014historians really call it that, but I stole the term because I love it\u2014every time there\u2019s a hinge of history, we change our practice.<\/p>\n<p>So, the printing press: hinge of history. We had to change what education looked like when that came around. You could go telegraph, radio, and television. Most of us, and most of the people listening to this, went through a world where the only technology we used in classrooms was <em>Oregon Trail<\/em>. If you think about it, back when we were using <em>Oregon Trail<\/em>, it was awesome. It was a lot of fun. It was a learning tool. But most of us thought about technology as a toy back then.<\/p>\n<p>Now, all of a sudden, think about all the different types of things that we use it for: learning, work, everything else. The same thing happened with the internet\u2014it completely transformed what we do, from Google and Wikipedia to all the tasks we do online. AI is going to be another one.<\/p>\n<p>The issue I think so many people are freaking out about, me included, is that people at least used to have to work a little bit hard to go to Google, find sources, write, copy, paste, and cite things. Now, they can just say, \u201cWrite this for me,\u201d or \u201cDo this math problem,\u201d or all those different types of things.<\/p>\n<p>I saw a talk where this woman was saying, it\u2019s almost like we have to sometimes, with AI, reverse Bloom\u2019s Taxonomy. Start with creation. Work our way down. Evaluate the creation, then synthesize: What do we need to add to this from human knowledge and our human intelligence? Then go down to analyzing that and looking at others.<\/p>\n<div class=\"flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col relative items-end\">\n<div class=\"pt-0\">\n<div class=\"gizmo-bot-avatar flex h-8 w-8 items-center justify-center overflow-hidden rounded-full\">\n<div class=\"relative p-1 rounded-sm flex items-center justify-center bg-token-main-surface-primary text-token-text-primary h-8 w-8\">\n<p>It all comes back to remembering what\u2019s important about this creation or learning topic\u2014almost like reversing the process. I\u2019ve seen more and more people approach it this way. For example, during workshops, I run a sprint where we apply this method.<\/p>\n<p>When you do it as an adult, you have that moment where it clicks\u2014like, \u201cOh, now I get it,\u201d as you go through the process. For me, it\u2019s really a learning journey. There\u2019s no instructional manual for how we navigate this, but we do need to rethink what our assignments look like and how we\u2019re presenting them.<\/p>\n<p>Angela, there\u2019s a protocol I\u2019ve been using everywhere that I think your teachers should know about, especially if they\u2019re not already familiar with it. It\u2019s called the <em>Traffic Light Program<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a simple system structured around red, yellow, and green lights.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Red<\/strong> means no AI or technology is allowed for the assignment\u2014I want to see your own original thinking and creativity.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Yellow<\/strong> means you need to get permission before using AI.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Green<\/strong> means I want you to use it, like for MLA citations or other tasks where it saves time. For example, get that done quickly so you can focus on more important things.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This system gives teachers the ability to say, \u201cHey, we\u2019re in red right now,\u201d or, \u201cWe\u2019re in yellow,\u201d or, \u201cWe\u2019re in green.\u201d It brings back a sense of control and purpose to the classroom, which I think has been missing in this AI-driven world where everything feels a bit chaotic.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"group\/conversation-turn relative flex w-full min-w-0 flex-col agent-turn\">\n<div class=\"flex-col gap-1 md:gap-3\">\n<div class=\"flex max-w-full flex-col flex-grow\">\n<div class=\"min-h-8 text-message flex w-full flex-col items-end gap-2 whitespace-normal break-words text-start [.text-message+&amp;]:mt-5\" dir=\"auto\" data-message-author-role=\"assistant\" data-message-id=\"18fe7dbd-0b86-4501-b6f5-1b53a0972ee2\" data-message-model-slug=\"gpt-4o\">\n<div class=\"flex w-full flex-col gap-1 empty:hidden first:pt-[3px]\">\n<div class=\"markdown prose w-full break-words dark:prose-invert light\">\n<p><strong>Yes, I recommend that system too\u2014I love it. It makes everything so explicit for students. It communicates that AI isn\u2019t inherently bad or forbidden, but that it has a specific time and place. Over time, students can start to ask themselves, <em>Where should this assignment fall on the scale?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>They might consider questions like: <em>Could AI be a brainstorming partner for me? Could it be helpful? Or would it end up doing the learning for me?<\/em> This system helps students think more intentionally about their choices: <em>Why am I using AI? What am I getting out of this? What is the purpose of this assignment? What am I supposed to be learning?<\/em> It brings the focus back to the <em>why<\/em> behind their work.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This approach is so valuable. That intentional, metacognitive piece is huge\u2014especially for us as educators.<\/p>\n<h3>Too many changes in too little time: what lasts?<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Now, this is a bit of a side note, but I\u2019m thinking about the teacher who\u2019s listening and saying, <em>Okay, so now I need to change even more about how I teach? I feel like we\u2019ve had so many hinge points in history\u2014I\u2019ve lived through too many of them. I\u2019m tired. I\u2019ve had to adjust my teaching so many times, and I just don\u2019t know if I can keep doing this.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I completely understand. It feels like these hinge points in history are happening faster and faster, and that exponential pace can be overwhelming. What I would say to that teacher is this: in a world dominated by all this technology, human connection is more important than ever.<\/p>\n<p>And you know why are concert tickets higher priced now than ever before? We can listen to any song we want at any point in time, but people want that human connection. You know why sporting events are at higher tickets? I&#8217;m trying to get tickets to my Eagles game. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s impossible, right? But it&#8217;s it&#8217;s because we want that human connection. And a lot of people talk about how AI tutors are going to replace teachers, and they&#8217;re going to change everything. And to that teacher, I would ask the question, <em>Sure, it&#8217;d be great if every kid could have a tutor. But would that kid want to be tutored?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s great that they could have the opportunity. Do they want to be tutored? Do they want to talk to a bot? Or do they want to talk to you if you built that relationship with them? And so of course, we are going to have to continue to evolve as educators. But you know there&#8217;s four areas I always talk about as always being important throughout the history of time in education. If you want to create an engaged learning experience, it needs to meet at least three of the following criteria:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Human<\/strong> \u2013 Focused on personal connections, emotions, and relationships.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Social<\/strong> \u2013 Involving collaboration, discussion, or interaction with others.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Meaning-centered<\/strong> \u2013 Rooted in purpose and relevance, connecting to students&#8217; lives or interests.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Language-based<\/strong> \u2013 Encouraging expression, dialogue, and the use of language to explore and learn.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>And it doesn&#8217;t matter if you&#8217;re in Socrates and Aristotle&#8217;s time or our time right now or the 1980s, it has to be at least three of those four things.<\/p>\n<p>Now, do they look a little bit different in today&#8217;s world? Of course, they do. But they&#8217;re still what engaged kids. They&#8217;re still the principles and foundation of great learning experiences. And I think that teacher who&#8217;s overwhelmed should say,<em> Alright, in this world all of all this change and everything, what&#8217;s going to stay the same? <\/em><\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s the human need that&#8217;s going to stay the same? And if they realize that it is the fact that they need to be human and social and meaning-centered and language-based, those are the types of experiences, not technology, they&#8217;re going to engage kids. Hopefully, it&#8217;ll give them a little bit of calm. And I call these four things, the sharks of education. They&#8217;ve been through everything and they&#8217;re not going away.<\/p>\n<p>And I feel like hopefully I can give them some grounding of saying, you know, I do really have a place in this moving forward. And my kids are going to need that connection with me more than ever surrounded by all this technology.<\/p>\n<h3>Addressing FOMO and the need for belonging<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Yeah, that\u2019s a really lovely way to look at it. It ties back to what you said earlier about kids\u2019 so-called &#8220;addiction&#8221; to phones being more about belonging and connection. That study, where people were willing to pay to have everyone they know stay off social media for a while, really underscores how deeply this is tied to the sense of belonging and FOMO\u2014the fear of missing out. If everyone else is online, kids feel like they\u2019re missing out on things that are happening.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>If we know kids have this need for belonging, and we\u2019re asking them to put their phones away in the classroom\u2014whether it\u2019s just for a lesson, a day, or even the entire school day\u2014we have to acknowledge what\u2019s happening on a deeper level. I love the idea of having phones gone for the entire day because it prevents kids from checking between classes or worrying about what\u2019s being said about them at lunch. But even then, we can\u2019t ignore their underlying need for connection and belonging.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>I\u2019ve felt this personally when I\u2019ve put my own phone away for a while. That urge to check isn\u2019t really about the phone\u2014it\u2019s about wanting to know what else is happening in the world and feeling connected to the people I care about. Kids feel the same way. So, if we\u2019re not letting them check their texts in class, the question becomes: <em>How do we give them that sense of belonging in the classroom? How do we meet that need?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>And how do we address their very human fear of missing out? These might seem like separate questions, but they\u2019re deeply interrelated.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This is such a big issue for me because it forces us to think differently about what our instructional process looks like.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve probably heard of the gradual release of responsibility model\u2014it\u2019s the classic <em>I do, we do, you do,<\/em> with some collaboration sprinkled in along the way. When we think about removing technology from the classroom, we often assume that kids will suddenly start paying attention to the <em>I do<\/em> portion again, as if the problem was just the tech. But that\u2019s not really the case. Kids might\u2019ve been scribbling, daydreaming, or zoning out long before phones became an issue.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, when we were teaching on Zoom during the pandemic, most kids had their cameras off and weren\u2019t paying attention. That was a wake-up call for a lot of us\u2014realizing just how disengaged they were.<\/p>\n<p>So, while there will always be a time and place for direct instruction, we need to shift toward <em>we do<\/em> and <em>you do<\/em> much more often. Sometimes, the process might even start there, with direct instruction woven in as needed. Other times, we\u2019ll need to step back and become the guide on the side rather than the sage on the stage.<\/p>\n<p>If we\u2019re banning phones in the classroom but just using that time to stand at the front, click through PowerPoints, and give tests, we\u2019re not actually solving anything. All we\u2019re doing is making things easier for ourselves without addressing the real issue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Oof, that&#8217;s a tough one to swallow, isn&#8217;t it? I need to let that sink in there for a minute. If we&#8217;re getting rid of phones in order to just stand at the front of the classroom and have kids quote undivided attention as they listen to us talk, it&#8217;s not, we&#8217;re not solving the root problem.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re solving <em>our<\/em> problem, not the kids\u2019 problem. We all know that kids should talk more in class\u2014there should be more student talk and less teacher talk, more creating and less consuming. But the reality is that it\u2019s difficult to achieve within the current system.<\/p>\n<p>Our curriculum is bloated. We have 1,100 math standards and endless things we\u2019re required to cover. We have state tests\u2014whether it\u2019s the Regents in New York, the PSSAs in Pennsylvania, or the Iowa assessments. These are pressures we can\u2019t escape. So, I\u2019m not faulting teachers at all\u2014I\u2019m empathetic toward the system we\u2019re working within.<\/p>\n<p>That said, I think some of us believe that simply removing phones will fix the engagement problem. But I don\u2019t think it will. What solves the problem is implementing meaningful and relevant instructional practices.<\/p>\n<p>To me, that\u2019s the big shift we need to make in our teaching: running everything through the lens of, <em>How can I make this meaningful to kids? How can I make it relevant?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And the exciting thing is that there are more resources and tools available to help us do that than ever before. That\u2019s what makes me feel like, despite the challenges, it\u2019s an exciting time to be a teacher.<\/p>\n<h3>Rigor doesn&#8217;t always translate to retention<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Your new book is about making learning meaningful and relevant in an age of distractions. I wonder if you\u2019re like me in this sense: when I\u2019m writing a book, I often don\u2019t know what I fully think or believe until I start writing. The process itself helps me uncover my thoughts and organize the loose ideas in my head. It\u2019s not that I wait until I know it all and then write\u2014I learn as I write.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>I\u2019m curious if you experience something similar. What did you discover about your own thinking while writing this book? What did you learn in the process that might have surprised you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, this book has taken many twists and turns for me, but it really started with the idea of me struggling with eliminating these distractions and eliminating technology. And does that solve our problem? And the more and more research and studies I read, it didn&#8217;t solve many problems.<\/p>\n<p>And I even see that there&#8217;s a lot of pushback on Haidt&#8217;s work for neurodiverse and learners with disabilities that need this technology and need some of the assistive technology that phones and other devices take place. And so I started just having a little bit bigger and broader view, but what it came down to that I think was the big aha moment for me is we are now entering a kind of phase in education where kids can do anything at home faster than ever before and it doesn&#8217;t ever have to be their own. So how do we create a system of learning that is mostly done in class that connects the kids&#8217; interests and also covers our our standards and that type of thing? And the one thing that kept on popping up over and over again, when I was looking at the research and all that kind of stuff that just kept on jumping out to me over and over again is most folks think that rigor prepares kids for their future.<\/p>\n<p>And I think in some cases it does. But what we found is a lot of the practices that we&#8217;re doing have no effect on transfer. So this is a big study they did at Morristown and a bunch of other schools where they took all their kids that took a final. And these were high-performance students for the most part. I think the average final school was like a B minus, which is pretty good for a final.<\/p>\n<p>The kids took it in June, then they all took the final again in September. What do you think the average s score was? Same final, same kids.<\/p>\n<p>They went all the way down to an F. And there was not one kid that got an A. I mean, there were plenty of kids that got 100 and all that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>And so like that that, to me, started this process of, well, what&#8217;s our goal? Is it to see if the kids know something right now in this very moment, or is it for kids to develop knowledge, understanding, and skills that can transfer in the future?<\/p>\n<p>If that&#8217;s our goal, then a lot of our current practices aren&#8217;t really practical. We can give kids challenging tests and all this kind of stuff, and maybe some get A&#8217;s and some get F&#8217;s, but if three months later, every kid&#8217;s gonna get an F, even our highest performing ones, what have we done?<\/p>\n<p>What has that all been for? And so that really came out of a lot of the research I was looking at and really made me think differently, especially about assessment and how to craft performance tasks that are both meaningful and relevant, but then also lead to transfer.<\/p>\n<p>And that was one of the biggest a-has for me. I thought it was going to be a lot about instruction and getting kids&#8217; attention, but a lot of it ended up being about transfer and how we can do a better job of creating performance tasks that lead to transfer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>That really addresses a question I\u2019ve been mulling over for a while: the issue of rigor. It feels to me like we\u2019re asking students to do more and more compared to what we asked of them decades ago. You know, people often say things like, <em>\u201cKindergarten is the new first grade,\u201d<\/em> and I think that\u2019s true\u2014we\u2019re expecting a lot.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Of course, there are segments of people who argue that we\u2019re actually dumbing things down and making it too easy for kids. But when you compare what schools expected of students in the 1950s or even the 1980s to now, it\u2019s clear that we\u2019re trying to address a much broader diversity of needs. We\u2019re really attempting to do more.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>And that\u2019s where the word <em>rigor<\/em> becomes such a loaded term. There\u2019s this push to make things challenging, but somehow it doesn\u2019t feel like the answer. What you\u2019re saying here really hits on <em>why<\/em> that is.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, especially I think the way we define rigor, right? So um when we talk about teaching kids how to read, we use the term ah zone of proximal development a lot.<\/p>\n<p>For some reason that falls off after like second or third grade. But that should be always what we&#8217;re looking at when we&#8217;re creating learning experiences.<\/p>\n<p>Because if I was learning how to play tennis, it wouldn&#8217;t help me to play Serena Williams because that&#8217;s a much higher level than I&#8217;m at. It also wouldn&#8217;t help me to play my 10-year-old son because it would be on a much lower level. I need to find someone who&#8217;s a little bit better than me or at the same level in order to kind of grow. And we know this in sports and music and all these other areas. For some reason, in school and learning work, we need to develop more of those zones of proximal learning rigor is just a term for.<\/p>\n<p>Having kids struggle just a bad thing think there&#8217;s a place in time for it, but what&#8217;s your struggle looks very different than my struggle. And so a lot of kids that end up labeling themselves and the achievement gap kind of goes through and through. And even our highest performing learners are kids that are getting A&#8217;s.<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re the ones in most of the research that came out that are struggling with so much mental health, diet, depression, all those different types of things.<\/p>\n<p>And it&#8217;s from a lot of times that rigor. So if we look at it from a whole child perspective and a transfer perspective, really, where&#8217;s the rigor helping us? Who&#8217;s that helping? What problems is that solving? I think it does a lot more harm than good, but we&#8217;re just doing it for the sake of creating that struggle.<\/p>\n<h3>The role of self-regulation skills for students<\/h3>\n<p><strong>I\u2019m a big advocate for teaching students how to monitor and meet their own needs in the classroom so that the responsibility isn\u2019t entirely on teachers to differentiate and personalize everything for every student. I\u2019m curious if that\u2019s something you address in your work, and if you have strategies to help students develop skills like focus, self-management, self-advocacy, and self-regulation.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, this is such an important topic. Depending on kids\u2019 backgrounds, upbringing, and other factors, their abilities in these areas can vary widely. In the book <em>Empower<\/em> that John Spencer and I wrote, we start with a key question: <em>What decisions am I making for kids that they could be making for themselves?<\/em> That\u2019s the starting point.<\/p>\n<p>Once we identify those decisions, the next step is scaffolding. We can\u2019t just throw kids into the deep end\u2014we need to provide structure and guidance. What does that look like? Are we breaking tasks into manageable chunks? Are we doing regular check-ins? Are we holding different types of conferences?<\/p>\n<p>John Spencer outlines three types of conferences that I love:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li><strong>Feedback Conferences<\/strong> \u2013 The student asks questions, and the teacher provides feedback.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Reflection Conferences<\/strong> \u2013 The teacher asks questions, and the student reflects on their learning process.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Mastery Conferences<\/strong> \u2013 A back-and-forth conversation where both the teacher and student discuss progress and proficiency.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>You have to scaffold students to work their way up to that mastery-level conference. As teachers, we need to ask ourselves: <em>What protocols, structures, and strategies are we using to help kids develop these skills?<\/em> That\u2019s why I love tools like the scientific method, the inquiry process, the engineering design cycle, or design thinking. These provide students with a clear process to follow, which helps them self-regulate much more effectively than just telling them, <em>\u201cFigure it out on your own.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>When kids have a process and structure, they\u2019re much better equipped to develop self-regulation and independence in a meaningful way.<\/p>\n<h3>Building engagement without gimmicks<\/h3>\n<p><strong>What advice do you have for teachers who want to build long-term habits of engagement instead of relying on short-term tactics or gimmicks?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>When I wrote this book, I initially set out to create a straightforward guide\u2014like an IKEA manual\u2014with strategies: <em>Do this, then this, then this.<\/em> But as I dug into the research, I realized I was approaching it all wrong.<\/p>\n<p>IKEA-style solutions just don\u2019t work in classrooms. There are too many variables\u2014your class is different from mine, the ages and subjects are different, the school environment is different, and the individual students are different. It\u2019s impossible to create a one-size-fits-all solution.<\/p>\n<p>Instead, I now think of it like building a childhood fort. When you build a fort, you work with the materials and environment you have. If you\u2019re outside, you might use a tree. If you\u2019re inside, you might use couch cushions and blankets. The fort grows out of its environment, and no two forts are the same.<\/p>\n<p>The same is true for engagement. You try things. Some things will work and stick, and others won\u2019t. But over time, you figure out what works for your unique classroom environment.<\/p>\n<p>I think this process\u2014of experimenting, adapting, and learning from what works\u2014is a much better way to approach engagement than trying to follow a rigid, step-by-step formula.<\/p>\n<h3>The value of education is a harder sell for kids today, but we can change that<\/h3>\n<p><strong>I love that. I love that analogy. I think it&#8217;s perfect. <\/strong><strong>I want to close out the show with a takeaway truth. What is something that you wish that every teacher understood about engaging learners at an age of distraction?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>When I saw this question, I thought, <em>Wow, this is a lot of pressure!<\/em> But I think the big takeaway truth is this: our learners are different because their lived experiences are different.<\/p>\n<p>When I was growing up, the only glimpse I had into the lifestyles of the rich and famous was through shows like MTV Cribs. That\u2019s how I saw the mansions, the fancy cars, and even the stocked fridges and pantries. I grew up in a small town, and I only had two friends I\u2019d consider \u201crich.\u201d One\u2019s parents were doctors, and they had an in-ground pool (which we rarely got to use, but it felt amazing). Another friend\u2019s dad was a lawyer, and he always had the latest gaming system, like the new Nintendo or Sega.<\/p>\n<p>When my parents told me, <em>Go to school, pay attention, do your homework every night, get good grades, go to college, and you\u2019ll have a good life,<\/em> I believed them. I didn\u2019t always follow their advice, but me and most of my friends bought into that story. It was the blueprint for success.<\/p>\n<p>Fast-forward to today, and when we tell kids the same story, it\u2019s a much harder sell. They\u2019re looking at their phones\u2014the ones we\u2019re paying for, by the way\u2014and seeing thousands of people on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars. They see people earning money by putting on makeup, playing video games, or doing dances\u2014not even good dances!<\/p>\n<p>This is a monumental shift. Kids are looking at the world and saying, <em>I can do anything and make money doing it.<\/em> There\u2019s never been a time in history where that\u2019s been so accessible. It\u2019s completely changed how we think about the future, success, and especially school. School was once viewed as the bridge to a better life if you followed the \u201cright\u201d path. But now, many kids are asking, <em>Why should I do your assignments, take your assessments, or buy into your idea of a school-based future\u2014unless I care about the learning or see value in what I\u2019m doing?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>This is why it\u2019s more important than ever to help kids care. We need to make learning meaningful and relevant, or we risk losing their attention and their commitment. The traditional \u201cgame of school\u201d doesn\u2019t work in a world where kids have endless options and access to everything at their fingertips.<\/p>\n<p>So, how do we adjust? That\u2019s the big question for the next decade. How does education evolve? Can we stop telling the same old story? And let\u2019s be honest: that story never worked for everyone in the first place. There have always been people left behind by that narrative.<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s the new story for education going to look like? What will it look like in your classroom? How will you motivate your students and help them achieve? How will you make even the dull parts of the curriculum meaningful and engaging?<\/p>\n<p>These are the challenges we face as we navigate this hinge point in history. We\u2019re dealing with a generation of kids who have more options than ever before. Add to that the rise of artificial intelligence on top of all the distractions they\u2019re already facing, and it\u2019s clear we\u2019re in uncharted territory.<\/p>\n<p>For all of us, the question is this: <em>How can we be human, empathetic to our students and their circumstances, and create meaningful, relevant learning experiences?<\/em> Because when we do, teaching becomes fun again. When kids are engaged and empowered, the work we do as educators becomes deeply fulfilling.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We\u2019re tackling one of the biggest challenges educators face today: keeping students engaged in a world full of distractions. AJ Juliani joins me to explore how to create meaningful and relevant learning experiences that resonate with today\u2019s learners, even in the age of TikTok, smartphones, and endless notifications. He\u2019s an educator, author, and speaker who &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/truthforteachers.com\/truth-for-teachers-podcast\/engaging-distracted-students\/\">Continued<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":152767,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","categories":[11,2458,3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-152618","podcasts","type-podcasts","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-education-trends","category-equity-resources","category-truth-for-teachers-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Truth For Teachers | Meaningful and relevant: engaging learners in the age of distraction<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/truthforteachers.com\/truth-for-teachers-podcast\/engaging-distracted-students\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Truth For Teachers | Meaningful and relevant: engaging learners in the age of distraction\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"We\u2019re tackling one of the biggest challenges educators face today: keeping students engaged in a world full of distractions. AJ Juliani joins me to explore how to create meaningful and relevant learning experiences that resonate with today\u2019s learners, even in the age of TikTok, smartphones, and endless notifications. 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